November 14, 2021
USL sits down with the San Diego Loyal SC midfielder Collin Martin who remains one of the few openly gay men’s professional soccer players in the world. In an in-depth discussion, Martin discussed coming out publicly as a gay athlete, being present in other people’s growth, and how allyship can broaden the impact of change in communities.
Video
Watch my interview with ESPN FC. Or watch it on Youtube.
Transcript
UCL: What’s up, man?
Collin Martin: What’s up?
UCL: Thanks for coming.
Collin Martin: Nice to meet you. Appreciate you.
UCL: Yeah.
Collin Martin: Awesome.
UCL: Thanks, Jesse. So I want to. I want to talk to you about a couple of things today. Sport inclusivity, American soccer, what we’re doing. Right. But I think also, more importantly, the areas that we can get better in terms of LGBTQ inclusivity. You said you knew very early in your life that you wanted to be a soccer player, but that you felt at the time like to achieve that dream, you might have to leave a part of you behind, and that it took you a while to get to the point where you felt like there’s no shame in being a gay male athlete. Right. And you wanted to normalize it as best you could so that other kids who are coming up don’t necessarily have to go through that same experience or not the same intensity of that experience, maybe, that you went through. How do you feel that normalization process is going?
Collin Martin: Growing up, I didn’t see many gay athletes like myself, so it took me a while to accept myself in different facets of my life. But one of the places where I didn’t really see much representation was in sports. And so I basically, like you said, I wasn’t going to let anything get in my way of achieving my goals, which were to be a professional soccer player. Initially, when I was starting coming out and having my sexuality, figuring that out in general was going to be far out of my mind. I think once I realized how hard that those obstacles were for me early on in my career and how other people that were in my place weren’t having to deal with this, like, this whole other component of growing up and maturing. And I think that if I could make that process easier or speed that up for people, it would only be right, because in general, I had a pretty good, easy experience. But there still is that growth that just straight athletes don’t have to go through.
UCL: How are we doing, do you think, at making our sport and our game as inclusive as possible for kids who are in that extremely formative time of their lives, figuring things out and creating safe spaces for them?
Collin Martin: Yeah, I mean, it’s tough to say. I mean, for my own journey, I was in youth soccer. I played at the D.C. united Academy. I had my unique experiences with maybe coaches that were. Maybe didn’t use the right language at times, teammates that I loved, but used tough language. And then I went to college at Wake, and I had an amazing experience, but that wasn’t easy for me either. It was honestly really refreshing Going into a professional locker room because, like, yeah, guys didn’t talk about, like. Like, women like they did in college, or, like, there was a little bit more respect for your personal space after every weekend. I’m not asked, like, what girl did I hook up with? You know, so I’ve talked about in the past how much coaches have a responsibility, especially at the youth level, to make, like, make it more inclusive, and.
UCL: Is a big part of that. You mentioned it, but the language, being extremely careful about your word selection in order to make that environment feel safe and inclusive.
Collin Martin: Yeah. One of our teammates last year, he was kind of giving one of the young guys a hard time asking about girls. And I was like, hey, what if he. What if he didn’t like girls? You know, like, you’re making him pretty uncomfortable, whether you’re asking him things that he doesn’t want to answer in the first place, but if you’re going to ask him that, be open to the fact that maybe he’s not just interested in girls.
UCL: That’s amazing.
Collin Martin: So just little things for us to think about.
UCL: Yeah. What did he say?
Collin Martin: My teammate, he really appreciated it. It really made him think, you know, and so. And I think that’s what’s cool. Cause all you need to do is give someone a different idea or a different way to think, and from there, they’ll either, like, address it and think about it in a different way, or they’ll still be maybe stuck in their ways, but you just gotta give them the chance to do better. Not a lot of my teammates have had gay friends. Like, they maybe haven’t felt comfortable enough to ask a question that they. They maybe were naive about or didn’t know about, you know, so, like, within those conversations and, like, as long as they’re respectful, like, that’s where, like, the real growth is.
UCL: What does it mean to you, the idea of allyship, and what do you think the primary barriers are that are preventing people from being better allies?
Collin Martin: Mm. It’s about standing up for something that doesn’t personally affect you. For me, that’s what allyship is. Whether you want to stand up in terms of financially, whether you want to stand up and build awareness, there’s different ways you can do it. Right? I mean, you can give your money, you can give your time, you can give education to the next person so that they have the right tools to help support someone in the community. And that’s what it looks like to me. Pick one thing that you’re passionate about and you can care about. Like, we can’t do it all. We can’t pledge our time and energy to a hundred different things and try to make like legitimate positive change, you know, so if there’s like one area in the community that you really care about, like, we’re Talking about this 365 days of pride now with the usl: that’s moving towards more of like actual substantial, like work that’s going to be done on a day to day basis, like with an actual goal. It sort of feels like a checkmark when you post about something or I’m like so inundated with links and stuff that I just gloss over it and I feel like I’m almost numb to the different causes at times. And so that’s why I think in order to actually be a really good athlete, just pick one thing.
UCL: Seriousl:y, what are clubs doing? Well, and sort of similar to what we talked about before, where can teams even get a little bit better in terms of, of overall inclusivity? Practices within their, within their walls.
Collin Martin: Yeah. At Minnesota, I loved how that they had a gay fan club. That was sweet to me. I mean, to be able to have a Pride game but actually see like the LGBTQ community in the stands, like, it’s different, you know. And for me, when I came out at the Pride game, it very much was like a celebration with those people, you know, for them to know that they had like a person like them that was playing on the field and like that was like what was really special to me. D.C. there was, there was a lot of gay fans, so that was nice. And in San Diego too, we’re building, we’re building that here and I think it’s only good for them, like when we can get this, these stadiums full again. Like there are going to be a lot of fans out there that are going to be wanting to come to games and because they feel they like that they belong here and that they’ll be supported and that they can come watch their team.
UCL: It seems like you have some really good people around you here in Landon and Warren and Andrew. People who care about you and who want to do the right thing.
Collin Martin: When I knew my time at Minnesota was ending and I had a good idea that I wanted to be in the usl:, to really grow as a player, I was smart with where I wanted to go, you know, Like, I thought that this would be a great place and wow, I was proven right. And not only, yeah, is it a good place for me playing wise, but like, yeah, the support I’ve had. And to be honest, at the beginning I wasn’t made to feel different than anyone else on the team. And that’s what you want, right? But you also want to be able to have real conversations with your coaches in the front office and be able to feel comfortable expressing yourself if you want to. And that’s how I felt. And so it’s been really a seamless transition and yeah, obviousl:y feel really supported by the guys on the team and I’ve been lucky.
UCL: How’s it been from a strictly soccer standpoint? How’s your game right now?
Collin Martin: It’s great. Yeah. I’m so happy. Yeah. I can’t remember being happier, really. And last year was so much fun. Towards the end of the year, we really were.
UCL: You were flying.
Collin Martin: Yeah, we were playing really well. We were just enjoying ourselves, I think going through that rough patch, like when we weren’t scoring and when we lost a couple games and being able to push towards playoffs and have something to look forward to, I just haven’t had that, you know, and to feel like an important member of the team, like, I’ve been missing that. You know, like, you can show up to work and enjoy yourself and be, like, grateful that you get to play soccer every day, but, like, if you don’t feel like a part of the team, like, it can really suck.
UCL: I wonder, you know, just from your chair, is there anything that we can do better? Is there anything that usl: can do better?
Collin Martin: Obviousl:y we talked about pride matches. I think they’re important. I think we can expand on them league wide. I don’t know how much you would have to, like, push a certain narrative necessarily. I think, like, that’s where, like, the teams can kind of explore different ways that they can really, like, engage their fans and. And make that night or that time a special time for those fans. But. And then I think that the last thing would be if an incident happens as a league, making sure that it’s properly dealt with. And I think with the incident that happened, I think the league did a good job of addressing it, taking it very seriousl:y and making sure that people understand that this. If there are going to be issues that whether it’s with fans or players or coaches, there’s going to be things that are going to happen. And as long as they’re properly reprimanded, that’s all you could ask for. Our league is unique, that it’s a younger league. I don’t know if I’m right. Do you know what the age, the average age is compared to the MLS or just like, it would be younger? It would be younger.
UCL: I don’t know the specific age.
Collin Martin: I feel like there’s a lot of education that can be done there. Like if like we have some younger guys in this league, like probably more than the average league maybe. And I feel like there’s some real education that can be done there. I know it’s never fun like having those like meetings, but I think like in preseason like we should be having a little bit more like the league can enact like maybe some proper like education that like. And I think it’d be good for everyone involved just to maybe think about something that they haven’t thought about or get some education about just simple HR stuff that maybe players don’t have to think about. But then on the organizational level, yeah, I think you’re right. It’s a challenge though. Some clubs are going to be better at others. And what do you do in that case? And what right does the league have to say to a team that their front office or their coaches aren’t doing something that they want or they’re not being as inclusive as. It’s a hard balance. But I think you can make sure that maybe that the right education is in place and so, and if it’s clear that it’s not, then you can ask for someone to be, to take the right steps, to maybe work on that.
UCL: I think that makes all the sense in the world. One of the things that we’re trying to solve for is it’s one thing to sit down for a 30 minute session once a year.
Collin Martin: Yeah, right.
UCL: And like preventing it going in one ear and out the other and you return back to the status quo and whether or not the lessons learned along the way carry with you is hard. It’s hard to ensure. Right. So we’re, I think we’re just trying to. And I think every organization, not just usl:, it’s every sports organization on the planet is trying to figure out how to, just how to be better.
Collin Martin: Right.
UCL: It seems from the outside looking in that the women’s game is light years ahead of the men’s game in terms of its overall inclusiveness. Why do you think that is?
Collin Martin: There’s the domino effect of once a couple players have come out and been supported by their teams, then it gives the, it makes it easier for the next and then it’s kind of cool because then you see, I mean there’s, there’s such good representation at that level that you see that now the women have, they’re able to do it at their own level too. Like not everyone has to be the poster child and be the out person and be. You can have a person that maybe doesn’t have to do the social aspect of it or come out publicly, you know, but because they’re just accepted by their teammates and they’ve already had a couple people do that, pick up the burden. But on the men’s side, that’s just not the case, you know, So I think we’re going to have to have a couple more people come out publicly before you can have a guy on the team that’s just, yeah, I’m out and that’s cool, and I’m supported by my teammates, but I don’t need to do anything beyond that, you know, and ideally we wouldn’t have to. Ideally, no one would have to speak out or make a big public situation about it. But I just think in the women’s game, they’ve had those people come out, so they’re just like, they’re so much further ahead in terms of it not being a big deal. But until we have a couple more people come out, especially at that level and in other sports, too, right? Like, hey, we could have a couple soccer players, but have a ton of different basketball players, football players, and then, okay, if a soccer player comes out, who cares?
UCL: If I was to ask you, why do you think more gay male. Or why more male athletes who are gay have not come out?
Collin Martin: Yeah, I think it’s harder to.
UCL: It’s just harder.
Collin Martin: Yeah, it’s harder to be open with your teammates and facing being insecure about what they might think or what they might say, or not being comfortable enough with yourself because you haven’t been able to come out to your own friends, let alone your teammates. There’s plenty of people that can’t even come out to their own friends. I think now our younger generation is way beyond where even I was, and I’m only 26 with being able to come out at an earlier age. So they’re coming out at 12, 13, 14, 15, and being supported by their friends. Hopefully, if they’re playing sports, they’re going to be able to come out to their teammates then, too. And then there’s just a natural progression of, okay, if they end up being a professional, then they’re already out. They won’t even have to worry about it. Whereas I, when I first became a pro, I hadn’t come out to anybody. So that’s a lot of work you have to do outside of the sport you’re trying to play, you know, in terms of accepting yourself coming out Having your friends support you, your family support you, then you have your teammates. So it’s a lot. There’s a lot of levels that you have to get there. So it doesn’t surprise me why there’s people that come out after they’re done playing or. And because they’re focusing on other things. I think what was unique when I left dc, I told a couple teammates, but I felt like I had been living a lie still. So when I got traded to Minnesota, I used it as an opportunity to just completely write a new chapter and not lie. So the first opportunity I got at preseason, when a teammate asked if I was dating a girl or something, I just came out to a bunch of my teammates at dinner and said, no, I’m gay. All I needed to do was that one time, because then I just. I didn’t lie. I’m very much, like, a proponent of, like, to just, like, give the people that are around you, like, a chance to, like, just receive you for who you are, you know, and deal with other stuff after. Like, you’re gonna get. We learn quickly as athletes. You’re gonna have people that say things about you that you don’t agree with or that are gonna be super negative about you for no reason. And I think when you learn that, that that’s always going to be the case. That’s the healthiest thing to learn. But you live and you learn.
UCL: So you live and you learn. Well, it’s brought you to San Diego, California, which is, like, one of the most beautiful places on the planet, surrounded by good people, still playing the sport you love, still doing an ambassador for the LGBTQ community, all at the age of 26. That’s pretty impressive.
Collin Martin: Yeah, no, it’s good. It’s good. Yeah. I try to just remind myself that I’m still doing this in the long off season, in and around my club a little bit and training some kids and just, like, having that full circle, being like, I’m still playing and doing this thing, and all these little kids maybe would one day want to do this. It’s pretty cool to remind yourself that.
UCL: Last question for you is, what would your message be to a young, aspiring footballer who might stumble across this interview one day and be trying to break into the sport and be trying to become the kind of player you are today? What would you tell them?
Collin Martin: Yeah, your sexuality should never limit you from playing the sport you love. And, yeah, don’t let anything get in the way of you pursuing your dreams of playing soccer. And it’s a sport for everybody. And, yeah, like, you’re gonna meet some amazing people in the game. And please, yeah, play it and fall in love with it, because it’s the best sport.