January 6, 2025
As I look back on this 2023 USL Championship season with North Carolina FC, the milestones keep piling up – 150 games and over 10,000 minutes on the pitch.
Numbers that speak to consistency, to showing up game after game.
“Steady,” as I often describe my role in midfield. But five years ago, when I made the decision to come out publicly as gay, there was nothing steady about my path forward.
The soccer field has always been my home, but it’s just one part of my story.
Beyond the playoff push with my NCFC teammates, I’ve found purpose in sharing my experiences authentically – both the beautiful moments and the challenging ones.
From building a life with my boyfriend Zach to advocating for LGBTQ+ inclusion in sport, each step has shaped not just who I am as a player, but as a person.
Here is my conversation with Jon Holmes for his podcast, Football v Homophobia.
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Transcript
John Holmes: Welcome to the Football v Homophobia Podcast. My name is John Holmes and I’m part of the campaign team bringing the pod to you via Sports Media. Lgbt. My guest for this episode is Collin Martin, who many listeners will know is an important figure in our LGBTQ football world. Collin is a midfielder for North Carolina FC in the USL Championship. It’s his first season there, having previously been with San Diego Loyal and before that in MLS with Minnesota United, where he made headlines around the world in June 2018 when he came out publicly as gay on the eve of his team’s Pride game. Collin is currently the only out gay or biathlete in men’s professional soccer in the US he’s one of just five out players known to be active on elite or second tier pro men’s club rosters at this time anywhere in the world. And he’s a great advocate for the LGBTQ community. We’re checking in with Collin at this time because it’s the pivotal point of his and North Carolina’s campaign. The last game of the regular season is on Saturday night and the team is bidding to seal a playoffs berth. So we’ll be talking about the state of play to start with and there’s some chat about teammates, including the fine form of his friend Evan Conway. But this is a timeless conversation in which Collin reflects, self analyzes and gives his insight about the challenges and the opportunities that a gay footballer would face in the modern men’s game. Please do rate, review, subscribe and share to help keep this pod going and your feedback is very welcome. Message us on socials or email me@john jonootballvhomophobia.com but for now, let’s get into the chat.
John Holmes: It’s great to be joined by Collin Martin for this episode of the podcast. Hi Collin.
Collin Martin: Hey John. Thanks for having me.
John Holmes: You’re very, very welcome and it’s fantastic to have you on this episode in particular, but I think in general, the podcast has been running for a number of years and we haven’t had the opportunity, I think, to speak to you before. So very, very grateful for your time. Thank you.
Collin Martin: Yeah, of course, I’m happy to be here. Happy to talk with you.
John Holmes: Well, look, let’s bring it right up to the here and now and this is a crunch week in the USL Championship last round of fixtures and in the regular season, of course. So maybe from your perspective, we’ve sort of filled in our listeners a little bit with an overview, but how are things looking from your perspective and North Carolina fcs?
Collin Martin: Yeah, I Think the team is gelling at the right time. We’ve had a bit of a roller coaster year just in terms of results. It feels like we’ll win a big game and then lose a game we shouldn’t and just been up and down a bunch. But at the very end of the season we sort of won some important games to put ourselves in a spot. And I’d like to think that we’re a team no one wants to play come the playoffs. If we, if we can win this last game, so, so we’re heading in the right direction for sure.
John Holmes: So this last game is a home game against Las Vegas Lights. Yes, they’re second in the Western Conference, so quite a tough game on paper.
Collin Martin: Yeah, they’ve completely turned around their, the organization. They’ve. This is the first year they’ve made the playoffs and my old, their captain, Charlie Adams was my old captain in San Diego, so we’ll be playing against each other again and yeah, it’s good to see an organization, you know, make a, a big turnaround and it should, yeah, should be a good game. I feel like they have some, some good attacking players and, and we’ll see how we match up soon.
John Holmes: And of course, this is the club’s first season back at this level, if I’m right in saying so, you know, really you’re chasing this victory at the weekend to extend your season into the playoffs. So what is the, kind of the, the mood around the place? What’s the vibes that people feel like? Yeah, as you say, it’s been up and down all season, but yeah, but there must be a feeling of like, okay, you know, we’re competitive, we’ve kind of hit the ground running a little bit.
Collin Martin: Yeah, I think all season we’ve acknowledged that we, you know, we have a good roster, we have a bunch of guys that have done well in the, in the league and, and then mix that with the guys that won a championship last year at the USL League one level. We’ve sort of acknowledged that we’ve had a good group. It just hasn’t really all come together. But I feel like finally we’re getting the results that we, we’ve expected and if anything, we don’t want the season to end because we’re finally starting to play and, and play as a team. But yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s taken us a bit to get there, but at least, at least we’re finally kind of playing the, the right football that we should be. So we’ll see what we can do.
John Holmes: And, and I was looking at some of the, the tables for like individual performances and you’ve got some of your teammates that really kind of high up each of those different individual ladders, as it were. Evan Conway, some scored a lot of goals, Ezra Armstrong, a lot of assists. Jake McGuire, a lot of clean sheets. So even though you know you’re not right up there challenging at the very top of the, for like league leaders trophy or whatever, that would be the equivalent of that. But you know, been like you’ve got those individuals who’ve been quite clearly star performers in the league.
Collin Martin: Yeah. And we have a good goal differential. And I think the Eastern Conference this year is a little bit more competitive than the West. There’s only four of the top teams in the east have solidified their position in the playoffs. So there’s still four other teams that are fighting for those four spots, whereas the Western Conference is all, all eight teams have already solidified their spots. They might be still fighting for placement, but it’s been a little bit more competitive. And in the east this year, for whatever reason, obviously, coming from the Western Conference in San Diego the past couple years, I thought the west was, has been very strong and still is. But I think going back to the east this year, we’ve seen, I mean every, pretty much every team except for last place, Miami is right there and has a chance. So I think it’s just a testament to all those, all those teams on the east that have stuck with it all season.
John Holmes: Exciting, exciting. Well, let’s get into you individually then a little bit. So this has been milestone season for you a little bit. 150 regular season appearances. That was a mark that you’ve reached. You’ve got your big 30 birthday coming up very soon. I saw. So this is like maybe kind of a touch point in your career. So how do you feel like you’ve performed and where, where you’re at career wise at the moment?
Collin Martin: Yeah, I think, you know, anytime you change clubs, there’s going to be a lot of different things that you have to go through. Obviously it was a cross country move for myself. I’d been on a team for four years where, you know, you’re established and, and when you’re anywhere for that long, I think that obviously they appreciate your play and appreciate what you’ve brought to the table. And I was fortunate that, you know, my play allowed me to then come to North Carolina. But, you know, I think it, it takes time to settle into a new life, a new home and a lot of changes, for sure. Just even off the field, I feel like I’m, I’ve grown up in a lot of ways this year that, that I haven’t even in the past, but in terms of my play, I think I’ve been, you know, I’ve, I, I, I pride myself on just being very steady. You know, you’re not going to get the eight, nine out of ten performances from me, at least. I, you know, I still haven’t scored this year, which is unfortunate, but I’ve provided some assists and, you know, I try to just have a solid game, especially in the midfield. You know, you’re not always, it’s not always the glamorous position, you know, on the field, but. So I think I’ve been steady, and I think only as I get to know my teammates and they get to know me, just continue to play better. And I think also being a new club and trying to mold new players, from last year to this year, I’ve talked about how it takes some time to, to gain that love for the club and that, that, that understanding of what it means to, to play for, for a club. And so, you know, I think that’s taken a little time and I think the group is, is sort of taking some time to figure out, you know, what’s special about this team, so.
John Holmes: And how helpful was it that you had former loyal teammate in Evan coming into the club at the same, same time as you? I, I’m not sure if you, there are other teammates that you played with before as well.
Collin Martin: Yeah, no, it’s been big. Obviously, Evan was a good friend when I was in, in San Diego and obviously a huge, huge ally. And to be able to continue to play with him, he’s, he’s obviously a great player and is having a good year. It’s been, it’s been really amazing. And I mean, he’s my best friend off the field as well, so we spent a ton of time together and it’s, it’s been very special, to say the least.
John Holmes: That’s, that’s awesome. And I know how important that must be. So, so also I was looking at the timeline, summer 2013, when you started out at D.C. united, Pride Month 2018, when you. Your personal news with the world.
Collin Martin: Yeah.
John Holmes: And so actually, as a pro player, you’ve now been publicly out for longer than when you weren’t out. So when you think about that time, what changes have you sort of seen in yourself between then and now?
Collin Martin: Yeah, that’s a, that’s a lovely question. You know, I I think when I first started off as a professional, I think it was unique that I was living still with my parents as a 18 year old. And I think understanding that I was living at home and also trying to explore my sexuality while also starting my career, there was a lot going on there. And I think I made huge steps in trying to explore my sexuality at first when I first signed my contract in D.C. but maybe I hadn’t grown up as much as like an adult and living on my own. And so then I think when I went to Minnesota, I really started to make a lot of steps, you know, as a young adult and living on my own for the first time. And coming out obviously was, was huge and really starting to see what’s, you know, what’s important to me outside of soccer too. And then I think the San Diego years over the past four were huge just for my footballing side of things. I actually got to enjoy playing and being a part of special teams and kind of making my. A name for myself on the field, which I desperately wanted to do. I hadn’t really done that up to this. Up to that point. I played a little bit in the mls, but I never really was a starter and so that was huge. And then now being in my second major relationship and moving across the country and moving into a home with my partner, I feel like this is a whole new level in my, my professional life. And so I think, what is it now? I think this is my 12th season, so that’s kind of crazy to think about. And this is a whole new phase in my career that I’m, I’m trying to, you know, establish what that means for me. And definitely I now can say that I’m grateful for every. Everything that’s come and just trying to soak it all in too, because you never know how long you’re going to play.
John Holmes: Yeah. And what you were saying there about like, I think kind of outside interests and you know, kind of learning about your, what you might be interested in off the field as well. It just kind of strikes me that quite a few examples, I think, of athletes in men’s sports who have had kind of similar interests off field. That’s really helped them maybe learn more about themselves in, in every sense. I mean, Robbie, Robbie Rogers and fashion, that was obviously a big thing for Robbie. And Andy Brennan, who I interviewed on this podcast in the previous episode, was talking about studying psychology and how that’s a real interest to him. Thomas Beatty Entrepreneurship is his big thing. And I mean, I know that you’re very interested in history and art and these are kind of maybe not typical sort of pursuits, I guess, of male athletes, perhaps, but. Yeah, like what’s. What is that kind of added to your sort of sense of understanding? I guess. I mean, there’s a. The lack of representation in the sport often comes down to that conformity and being cocooned, I think maybe within the sport, but, you know, stepping outside of that. That must be such a big part of your story, I guess.
Collin Martin: Yeah. I mean, I’ve always been comfortable, you know, in museums and surrounded by art and learning about art. And I. I think it’s important to be able to have things outside of football that. That enamor you, that. That make you feel interested, that. That things that you, you know, you want to learn about and, and that you can engage with that can take a little bit of a. Edge off what you do, because obviously, you know, being an athlete, it can feel all consuming at times. So. I know for me it’s going to museums and just walking around and looking at art. It’s a huge escape for me. I haven’t quite figured out what I’m going to do after. After playing and. But that the art world at large is some. Is something I’ve definitely thought about. And whether, you know, it’s just collecting and being in and around art on a personal level or if I could, you know, make a career of it somehow, it’s definitely an ongoing love. And recently I’ve collected some photographs which I’ve. That’s been a. A different medium that I’ve kind of explored. But. But yeah, you never know when. When you’re going to be done playing. So, yeah, I feel like it’s important to diversify your interests for sure, outside of the game.
John Holmes: Maybe I’m being unfair on other players, but I guess maybe that’s the sense of what I get. Like, I don’t see much evidence of that certainly over here in this country of kind of players being interested in museums and galleries and. Etc. But I mean, maybe your experience is different. Maybe you do know of teammates and opposition players that you encounter who do have these kind of what might be deemed unusual outside interests. Is that right?
Collin Martin: Yeah, I mean, of course. Yeah. I think when you get to know someone, you realize all of my teammates have unique interests that I think would. Would be intriguing to. To fans. And I’ve. I found it really fun to go to museums actually with teammates. So this year we’ve gone. I’ve taken Evan to a couple museums on the road and then Our, our other teammate Jacori, on the road and just to see the way they interact with the art and what pieces strike, you know, interest in them is, is really fun. But. But yeah, I think when you, when you dig deeper, you realize that even if it’s just like a genre of book that people like to read or. Yeah. How people spend their, their free time, because it can, it can feel like all we do is just play and, and have games on the weekend and we don’t have much of a social life, you know, so. But it is interesting when you dig a little deeper, for sure.
John Holmes: And do you have like a historical period of choice or like an art movement? Is there something that you gravitate towards in museums?
Collin Martin: Yeah, for sure. Well, even, even just in terms of what I’m, I’m reading, I picked up two, two books this week. One’s called the Art Thief. Some, some French guy was running around Europe stealing prized works of art, and I think he housed it in his mother’s house in France. And she had, she apparently had no idea that these works were worth millions of dollars and were super valuable. He eventually when he. I think he’s about to get caught, I think he throws or he damages the work works. And it’s like so sad because I mean, they were brilliant pieces of, of art and he just, he damaged them without any regard. There’s more to the story. That’s why I need to read the book. But, but yeah, in terms of, in terms of art, I mean, I’m interested in all different types of, of art, so modern art, impressionist work. I mean, I like Roy Lichtenstein, Cy Twombly, European art and really any, any and all art. So I have an interest in it all. Really.
John Holmes: Great. Well, I’m sure people that follow you on Instagram have familiar with your, like, journeys around Europe and, and going to art galleries and stuff.
Collin Martin: Yeah, I’ll be in Paris in, in January, so I’ll be going to more museums there when I, when I visit, so.
John Holmes: Fantastic. Well, we’ll look out for those snaps alongside that in some respects, I guess is, you know, other things you do off field. And this year particularly, you’ve been doing a bit more kind of partnership work. I know that you’ve had two pride month activations, I think, in consecutive years with Legends, the clothing company. And you also had one with better sleep this year as well. So maybe just talk to me a little bit about those, how they came about, why those opportunities appealed to you perhaps.
Collin Martin: Yeah, Legends was a brand based in L. A And we worked when I was in San Diego together and you know, I think we both acknowledged that we wanted to push that east coast market a little bit and, and to do something fun that was pride related when during my time in North Carolina this season. So that, that all kind of happened naturally and then the better sleep. Actually someone that was in the company was living in North Carolina and I think my name just popped up and he thought it would be really cool to, to share my story but also use a bedtime story and with meditation in mind and in wellness. And it was actually a pretty unique experience. I’ve never done something like that. We were in a booth or a studio for about 5, 6 hours recording the story. And I mean I had to go over my lines over and over again because the intonation wasn’t right or because I misspoke a word. And it was very labor intensive. But that was fun. It was cool to share a coming out story and kind of use components of my story, Minnesota and San Diego and. But have it just be light and pretty. Yeah, I think it was, it was fun to, to share the light side of a coming out story and, and not have to focus on, you know, all the barriers that people face when, when coming out. It felt very naive in a way, but a nice way.
John Holmes: Yeah, well that’s, that’s, that’s brilliant. And I think, yeah, this is an area that’s. Is often spoken about being like this kind of burgeoning opportunity, I think for out gay men, particularly sport that wasn’t really there before, you know, this idea that, you know, actually could be quite a lucrative thing for your career. I’m not saying you’ve made like pots of money out of partnerships, but I mean it’s. What, to what extent do you feel maybe that kind of gay athletes are actually maybe poised to reap these potential benefits if and when they do take that step? Or are we maybe running it, Running ahead of ourselves a little bit?
Collin Martin: Yeah, no, I mean, I think it just, it depends on the personality. It depends on. It depends on the. Yeah, the person. I personally don’t love to put myself out there as much. I mean it may seem like I, I do, but I think I’ve slowed down over the years a bit. And a lot of the work I’ve done has come supernaturally just through relationships. And I don’t have a publicist, I don’t have a agent that my agent is solely on the football side. And so I don’t have someone going out and trying to find brands for me and trying to find that extra money. My partner jokes that, that I really should be, because they’re. I think there. There is a market out there for sure. But, you know, I’ve tried to share my. My story and, and be open and out and, and do it in different ways and. Yeah, even just working with. With the groups that I’ve. I’ve worked with that are doing advocacy over the years, I think that stuff is. Is meant more than me, more to me than even that, some of the Instagram stuff, and, and even this year and, And. And moving forward, I want to do more work on the local level, too. So I, I think, you know, even the, you know, in North Carolina, I, I want to be a little bit more involved than I have even this year, just with the local LGBTQ community and whether that’s giving my money but time and, you know, even maybe mentoring local kids. And I haven’t really been able to. To make an impact here locally yet in the way I want to, so we’ll see.
John Holmes: Well, that’s. That sounds really exciting. And I’m sure all these other opportunities will still kind of come along for you. And I was looking at, you know, some of the messaging, like in the Legends activation that you did in the summer, and, you know, there’s language in there about, like, leaving an impactful legacy, and I guess that plays into. Into what you just kind of were speaking about there. Working with young people in the community and, you know, wanting them to really be inspired, I guess, by your story, whether they’ve heard it through Legends or whether they’ve heard it through Better Sleep or just another way that they’ve connected with you, I suppose that for athletes who are. Who are LGBTQ and maybe sort of wanting to make a difference, and, I mean, I suppose, like, legacy can feel like quite a big word to take on, but actually there. There are opportunities there, aren’t there?
Collin Martin: Yeah, I mean, I, I think definitely that wasn’t me that wrote that, was it? But I don’t take my being out lightly, and, And I know that I can make a difference in. In different ways. You know, and whether sometimes I’m. I’m having more of an impact on my locker room itself and, and what that means to be an out player and be a representative of a large, diverse community, but also just trying to. To change hearts and minds, and in my locker room itself, I don’t. I don’t take that lightly. Who knows? You know, who knows who’s coming to the games and, and the Stadium and, and if they, if they know about my story and, and I hope they do, if that makes someone feel more comfortable to continue to play in the sport and that, that’s, that’s what it’s about for me. So that’s why I, I won’t shy away about continuing to try to do that work and to try to be very open about what it means to be a gay soccer player.
John Holmes: Yeah. And, and that’s why I always, I also think, you know, everything that you are interested in off the field is also such an important part of it because it just lets young people maybe know that you don’t have to be one particular way. You know, you don’t have to be conformist. You don’t have to necessarily kind of do everything the same way that your teammates do it. There are ways for you to kind of express yourself and you know, I guess the whole part of your story is that, you know, we can almost kind of, you can always see it in the, in the progress that you know that you’ve had like self acceptance, confidence, you’ve got those strong, supportive relationships around you. And I guess all this is required to some extent before you even think about coming out, you know, in a public way. So, I mean, how much do you think we are helping those young people who are going to be tomorrow’s big stars who might be kind of going through those similar experiences? Are they getting the right messages filtered down to them? Because as we know, there haven’t been a huge amount of people that have done what you’ve done.
Collin Martin: No, I mean that’s, it’s an important question to ask. Are we doing enough to make sure that people, that there’s no doubt in their minds that they’re going to be accepted and supported? I think there’s for sure more work to be done. I think that’s where, like you said, on a person to person basis, that support that they need to be able to make a decision to come out is massive. And I’ve talked when I came out how important it was for every pillar of my life for me to have worked and acknowledged and was made to feel safe. So even for example, my faith, you know, as an growing up in the Episcopal Church, if I hadn’t reconciled in my head that I was going to be able to still show up at church and, and that I was still going to be able to have a relationship with God now what, whether I have an amazing relationship now or whatever that relationship was going to be like, I, I don’t, I Don’t think I, I knew, but I wanted to make sure that I at least felt accepted by the church and felt accepted by my community before I came out. If that was an area where I didn’t, and I felt like that was a huge barrier, maybe I would have stayed in the closet. Obviously, family is a huge one that I think cannot be understated. I mean, if you just have one parent or close family member that is directly against you coming out and is not supportive, I mean, that is so detrimental to being able to take a step to coming out publicly. You have to have very thick skin, I think, to be able to, to separate that pain and that, that hurt from someone that so directly should love you and probably does. But that’s a huge barrier. And then on the sporting side, we know that there’s, there’s, you know, if you don’t feel safe with your teammates or your agent is telling you not to do it, or you have sponsorships that might be not welcoming, that there’s so many different things that have to align. And I think that’s when, like you said, you have to be confident in your decision and you have to, you have to be willing to, to sacrifice some, some people and some of those things in order to, to have your happiness and your peace of mind that you, that you’re living your, your authentic life.
John Holmes: And does it in any way perplex you or that you are, I suppose, the only out gay professional sportsman in US Leagues at this time? I mean, there’s, there aren’t any, as we know, in sort of NBA, NFL at the moment. I know they have in the past, but, you know, we’ve reached this kind of point on the arc where we seem to have come back upon ourselves a little bit in terms of representation.
Collin Martin: Yeah, it is bizarre. It is bizarre. And part of me thinks that maybe some athletes are interacting with their sexuality on a more private basis. I think, I think there’s a lot of queer and bisexual athletes out there that maybe are just, that are just exploring their sexuality and, or living out their sexuality but in privacy or you’re just. Yeah. On their own accord and don’t need to come out. I think that might be the case. But yeah, I, I don’t think about it too often, but when you ask me and I think about it now, I do think it’s crazy that there is not any out male athlete at the, at, at the five major league sports in America. It is crazy. So I, I don’t know. And, and I don’t think it’s necessarily anything that society is doing to hold that back. You know, I, I don’t, I don’t think so. I think there’s been enough people that have broken down the barriers. So it is, it’s. It’s perplexing, for sure.
John Holmes: Yeah. And as I completely agree with what you’re saying as well, you know, I think there are no, there are no real explanations at times. There’s so many different factors that kind of. And everyone’s individual circumstances are different. And as you say. I think, I think, yeah, because we know from what we hear from Gen Z surveys, etc. That, you know, young men are probably, maybe more likely to identify as queer or bisexual, maybe even more so than identifying as gay because. Yeah, that just seems to be the way that, you know, young people are kind of interacting with the world and with their sexual orientation as well. So there are kind of layers and layers and layers to kind of dip into. But it’s an interesting state of play, I think, that we find ourselves in. You know, I was always really interested as well in just obviously your story about the. What happened at San Diego, Loyal in that one game that brought you a lot of attention and, you know, was a learning moment, I think, for football. I hope you feel, I’m sure, sure you do see the, the constructive parts of what happened in terms of educating people and, and how it, it seemed to move the conversation on. I was always really interested in, like, how your teammates reacted around you. And I, I know you felt very kind of like it was awkward for you because this, that for a match, for them to walk off the pitch, that was never. You’ve explained it before, like it’s never what you wanted. It was like it made you feel very awkward and uncomfortable with the way that your teammates kind of reacted around you and so how you were able to kind of talk through it after, after it all happened. Do they see it in a different way to how you saw it at the time, or have you kind of shared stories on that level?
Collin Martin: Yeah, I think if anything, looking back on it now, you know, five years on or so, it would be a lot easier for me to have understood in my third or fourth season after being around a lot of those guys. For them to do that, I think it would have been, you know, for me a lot more easier to understand because they’re, they really knew me. They, they, they loved me and we were such a close locker room. It would have been less surprising and less crazy to me. But I think the fact that it was still, in our first year, we had played what that might have been our 15th game as a, as a team because, because of COVID So I think it will always be a little bit surprising to me that, that it happened in the first place, but also that my teammates were able to be so clear in their conviction in walking off the field. For me, even now I think about my locker room now, there’s so many different opinions. There’s so many different people from different backgrounds. I mean, we can barely agree upon what we’re going to do with our, our fine money at the end of the year, you know, but for every player in that locker room to be so clear that they were not going to continue if, if there wasn’t something done to me that still will, will, will blow my mind a bit. Not that they didn’t love me in the moment or support me in the moment, but just in general how they were able to separate everything that that game meant in the moment to be able to support me in something bigger. Yeah, I mean, it still will surprise me, but that I felt that level of support throughout my time in San Diego and still in North Carolina now too. It’s just in different ways.
John Holmes: Yeah. And Evan was also part of that team. Was he? At the time?
Collin Martin: He was. He came in after two seasons. So we played only two seasons in San Diego. Right. But I think, yeah, so I think for. Even just for team teammates coming into the team, I think it was very clear if you were going to join that team, there was, there was a level of expectation for how. Yeah, there was going to be no room for someone that wasn’t accepting.
John Holmes: Yeah.
Collin Martin: And there still shouldn’t be with any other team. But I think it was very clear where we stood. And I think that, that, that is very powerful and is a credit to my teammates in the club and Landon and everyone involved with that organization. Really.
John Holmes: Yeah, it was, it was a wild time. I mean, you know, 2020, everything that went along with it, but the circumstances that led up to that moment as well, the fallout from it, those challenges, I suppose at the moment, you know, FIFA seem to be not wanting that kind of thing to happen. They seem to be very clear that players walking off the field when moments of discrimination happen is bad for the game. So they, they’re obviously encouraging players now to kind of do this cross arms gesture. Have you seen this? I don’t. The new kind of anti racism campaign. They’ve got, it’s this, this gesture. They’ve encouraged players to kind of do this crossed arms Is that when a.
Collin Martin: Fan is racist towards a player, I think it’s. A player is racist towards a player.
John Holmes: I think it’s for either. I think it’s for. Yeah, it seems to be like if you are a player and you, you experience or you witness some form of discrimination, you signal to the referee that this has happened by making this gesture and the. Is then supposed to kind of either follow the, the protocols, you know, the kind of three step FIFA protocol, or, you know, some other kind of. Whether the referee just makes a note of it in this report, I don’t really know. It’s not, it doesn’t really seem to be particularly well thought through from my. And they’ve only ever spoken about it in terms of racism, not other forms of discrimination, so. Interesting times.
Collin Martin: Yeah, that is, that is. I mean, no real comment on that other than that. It’s, it’s a tricky situation, but you have to be able to support players, fans, coaches, referees from any type of abuse. And you can’t expect someone just to have to play on or play through that type of abuse because ultimately it’s going to lead to. It’s just wrong to begin with, but then ultimately it’s going to lead to a reaction of some sort that is not going to be helpful for eradicating that type of hate. You can take that however you want it. If the reaction is I go and punch the player in the face, that is a reaction that is ultimately going to be equally detrimental to the game, to the people that are taking part of the game. As to. If I tell a referee that there was a homophobic slur. So I think there’s, there’s, there’s right things you can do in the moment and there’s. And there’s wrong things. And the most wrong thing is to just acknowledge that it’s going to continue to happen and there’s nothing we can do about it.
John Holmes: Yeah, quite, quite right, too. And yeah, I don’t think we’ll know how this kind of new FIFA gesture is going to actually work in practice until somebody does it on the pitch.
Collin Martin: Yeah, I mean, well, if FIFA doesn’t want any clear expression of support for the LGBTQ community, then how are they going to want any real solidarity for when there’s discrimination? We can’t be expecting that, can we?
John Holmes: No, no, absolutely not. Well, look, I had a couple more questions for you. I know we were talking about relationships and, like, moving across the country, you sort of spoke a little bit about your part partner. And you and Zach, you do share some photos together on Instagram now and again, maybe sometimes tweet at each other. Can you, can you tell our listeners maybe a little bit about him? And I know he’s an athlete as well. Is that right?
Collin Martin: Yeah, yeah, for, for sure. And his own. I mean, I think he, he works out way more than I do. He’s got an event for anyone that’s interested. He is in. It’s a high rocks competition. So it’s some, it’s similar to CrossFit, I would say, but it’s, it’s got its own unique challenges. Yeah, he, he is, he’s busy. He’s. He’s building a company and he’s in, I’d say commercial real estate is the easiest way to describe his, the world he’s in. And, but he’s got a heavy interest in the fitness and health world and various degrees. And so it helps that he, he’s. He’s the cook in the house and is very health conscious. He barely drinks. I do drink. So it’s like we have some interesting. I’m the professional athlete, but he trains harder than I do. So it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s a little bizarre, but, but yeah, no, we’ve, we moved in earlier this year and, and have outfitted a home here in, in Raleigh and I think there’s, we’ve both grown a ton this year, so it’s the first time I’ve moved in with a partner and, and the same with him. He’s a little bit older. He just turned 43, so we’re figuring out on the go, but we’ve got it. We’ve got a nice little life and, and he is a large part. We, we have to thank to him and everything that he does for us, so.
John Holmes: Fantastic. Well, I’ve, I’ve sort of, I’m quite aware of High Rocks, actually. And some of our listeners will be as well because another of our friends, former podcast guests, a guy called Jake Williamson, who’s a former amateur footballer but has become a high rocks athlete, has kind of grown. Grown a bit of a profile over here. He might have even encountered Zach in competition.
Collin Martin: Yeah.
John Holmes: Before. Because. Because Jake is competing at the very high level of High Rock. So I’m sure there’s different categories and.
Collin Martin: Yeah.
John Holmes: And experiences.
Collin Martin: But, but yeah, this will be Zach’s first competition at the, the professional level or, or, or whatever they call it in Dallas next month.
John Holmes: Okay.
Collin Martin: Well, he’s been training really hard for it, so we’ll see how he does Fantastic.
John Holmes: Well, I’m gonna. I’m gonna check in with Jake and find out if Dallas is on his schedule as well, because it seems.
Collin Martin: It seems there’s a lot of different competition, so. So I’d be surprised, but maybe.
John Holmes: Brilliant. Well, look, last question, really. I suppose just looking ahead to 2026 and the world cup, which of course is going to be huge for the country. We are as football v. Homophobia. We’re an anti discrimination campaign, but we’re also like a community building project. And we’ve got people in some of the different cities across North America are going to be involved in bringing Pride houses to this 2026 World Cup. How important do you think they are? How impactful do you think they can be in terms of being welcoming spaces, not just for LGBTQ people, but for our allies or our potential allies to learn a little bit more about our community in football as well?
Collin Martin: I think they’re huge. I think they’re exciting. I can’t wait to be a part of them myself. Like you said, I think they’re a place for. For people to go to feel safe and whether you’re part of the community or not. And I think it’s going to be a stark contrast from Qatar and the open openly against they were. That they were in Qatar of LGBTQ community coming full stop to the. To the World Cup. I think that in the US you’re going to see a stark contrast of that. It’s going to be, I hope, the most accepting World cup that’s ever been put on. And yeah, I think that there’s going to be a ton of gay fans that are going to come into these. Come to the US for these games and they need to be know that there’s houses for them at a lot of different venues. So I’m excited and I definitely, yeah, hope to be a part of them.
John Holmes: Yeah, absolutely. Let’s hope so. And I think, you know, there’s a chance for all of us who are working in this space or have got an interest in, you know, and having is these kind of fantastic, as you say, venue spaces in prime houses that can bring people together. I think it. I think it is going to be super important. And yeah, that contrast between the previous Men’s World cup and this one is going to be quite clear. Look, I think that’s pretty much, yeah, all that I had to ask you. I don’t know if there’s anything else that you wanted to kind of to share or to add as part of this maybe that we haven’t spoken about, but I know Your focus is 100 on the weekend.
Collin Martin: Yeah, yeah, that’s the focus. And from there, you know, I’ve got another year on my contract so I’ll continue to be playing and I hope to be, yeah, continue to be the out player that, that we need and a shining example of, of what that visibility means. So, yeah, nothing, nothing to really share but just proud to still be playing and proud to be able to talk with you. So I appreciate it.
John Holmes: No, thank you so much. And from all of us on the campaign over here and, you know, followed your story and followed your career, we’re like hugely grateful for your visibility and, and for, you know, your advocacy as well, alongside sharing your own story. It’s, it’s really, really meaningful to us. So thank you and it’s fantastic to have a chat with you. Thank you so much.
Collin Martin: Thanks, John. Appreciate it.
John Holmes: So there we have it. Collin and North Carolina FC chasing the result they need on Saturday night at WakeMed park in Kerry. We’ll be keeping tabs on that and our fingers crossed for the team. Remember, you can keep tabs on the Football v Homophobia campaign, on our anti discrimination work and our community building events on our socials and website. We’re busy planning for the fifth Annual Football v Homophobia Awards. They’re going to be held in Glasgow on Friday 7th March 2025 and you’ll be able to suggest worthy clubs, fan groups and individuals when the nominations window opens later in 2024. The four weeks in February leading up to the awards is our regular campaign activation. That’s the FVH month of action. Get ahead of the game now by factoring that into your plans. Whatever level you play at, whatever role you have in the game, we’d encourage you to join us in taking a stand against homophobia, biphobia and transphobia and recommit to making your football spaces LGBTQ inclusive. Thank you again to Collin for being our guest on this episode. And maybe you also have a story or experience linked to being LGBTQ in football that you’d be up for sharing here. We’d love to learn more about that, so drop me a line. John Jonootball v homophobia.com it just leaves me to say thank you for listening and for supporting feh. Join us again soon for another episode. Until then, from all of us on the campaign, it’s cheerio.